And of course…page 1100!
Congrats on the milestone! Can’t wait to see more of Merlin and Camelot.
that sounds rather like a threat to me…
There is the intensity starting to show a bit now.
Also, I have to say: I love all of the detail of the world recently, but especially of the level of detail that is displayed with ‘ol Nic. I have greatly enjoyed watching the the story progress and enjoy making Dreamland Chronicles a regular in my daily web perusing.
Watch it Nick… Some people will know what you plan. And make plans themselves…
I gotta say I’m still siding with Nico on this. Thus far it sounds like he’s trying to protect Dreamland from a war amongst it self along with visitations and influence from humans that Arthur himself has been complaining about for years.
I mean really, if Arthur had been successful would the human world be at peace today, or would there be offshore oil platforms in Dreamland? :-/
the latter… >.>
and we know what would have happened to the cultures over there…
…and the merfolk would control the platforms. Thank you for buying Nairoobi oil.
hmm,maybe he merfolk would also have figured out a way to fix oil leaks, if so, the Gulf of Mexico would really benifit from their help.
God lord, was that really so long ago? Way to make me feel old…
Just about every evil megalomaniac in history has put his plans in reasonable-sounding terms. The fact that he sounds reasonable (as long as you don’t think about it much) doesn’t put him in the right.
Very true. But… something that worries me is, even though it doesn’t make him right, do we still (or maybe yet) have enough evidence to prove him to be wrong?
Reducto ad Hitlerum. Just because he may have evil intentions behind his words does not mean his words pose no logical validity. I agree with Nic: making humans and dreamlanders coexist is something that requires a helluva more thought and debate. I do not agree on the terms he is offering nor the way he behaves (and ultimately delivers). Anyway, it is difficult to decide wether we humas would’ve beneffited from Dreamlanders morals or if Dreamland would have been corrupted by human greed. We are pretty much invasive after all, but Dreamland seems pretty much resistant to evil (its denizens show it by helping Alex on his quest)
If Arthur is so concerned about using the morals of Dreamland to promote peace on earth, bringing adults there is not the way to go. Why not set up some kind of program with the Dreamlanders to teach such lessons to the children that come to Dreamlands naturally? Children are more impressionable, so now would be the time to teach them. National, religious, ethnic, political and geographical boundaries are pretty easily transcended in Dreamlands (as in kids from everywhere can get together), which would provide an excellent medium for such a lesson. And most of all, it would avoid the technical difficulties of bringing adults into Dreamlands.
both so stubborn… XD
and arthur really isn’t seeing the point. makes me want to shake him and tell him “wake up. not everybody lives by your ideals. you should KNOW that already!”
why doesn’t he want to understand that bringing over people regardless of their motives is BAD? ^^;
though nicodemus COULD word things a bit differently… *sigh*
I was just thinking about the way nic could have changed his wording too. With a little more appeasement he could make king arthur more sympathetic but because nic was probably so incessed about recent surprise information like that he was more than like so off balanced he couldn’t care less about any sort of ground giving
I take Nic’s side on this one. Arthur seems too proud to admit his errors
The pertinent question is… are they really errors? Arthur, with the help of Merlin, has devised a form of EXTREMELY limited real-world access to Dreamland by humanity and we can tell that it has taken him a great number of years (witness the evident differences in age between when he first proposed it and when he presented the magical pouch). Clearly, Arthur is proceeding in ignorance (he was unaware of the fact that there was anti-human prejudice in Dreamland although we have yet to see any “canon” evidence of this except from Nightmare… huh… coicidence?) but his pace is very slow and to Dreamland, it’s much much slower because of the difference in how time passes. His only “error” if we can call it that is that he was unaware of something he’s never seen evidence of and that isn’t all that much of a mistake. But otherwise, he’s proceeding cautiously like someone who is prepared to pull the plug on the scheme if there’s any indication that it’s turning bad but also expects his efforts to outlive him; it took many real-world years to be able to pass written messages so there’s a very long way to go before the “red man” vision quest becomes a way for people OTHER than Arthur and the rare shaman to come for a visit.
It’s interesting that we have proof positive that the centaurs and American Indians have personally communed before (I recall that the centaur medicine man figure mentioned it) but Nicodemus doesn’t seem concerned about that. It’s almost as if he’s coming up with excuses to dissuade Arthur…
Humans are corrupt, through and through. Dreamland would be better off without them
Humanity is not corrupt, merely misguided. The genuinely corrupt and evil are an abherration, an exception that proves the rule. Few are as altruistic and good as history’s giants like Schweitzer, Ghandi, King, Locke, E.M.G.G. Pacelli, Nightengale, Barton, Dunant, and Wilburforce (among others) but the grey of people is shaded towards white instead of black. Nic has nothing to fear if his motives are genuinely good.
But not without the kids! The kids are innocent and make dreamland special! Okay Dreamland is special without them, but kids make Dreamland even more special!
Kids are nothing but trouble. Dreamland is better off without them
Sounds like an ultimatum from one ruler to another, to me…
“Leave the boundaries are they are, or I’ll go to war with you!”
Definitely not words from a mere “advisor”…
Told you guys so…
Nicodemus: “Leave the borders as they are or suffer the consequences.”
Arthur: “What consequences would those be?”
Nicodemus: “A plague of vorpal bunnies, to start.”
Arthur: oh please, not the bunnies!
lol XD your comments are funny
sharp pointy teeth!
Arthur: I counter your plague of vorpal bunnies with my case full of Holy Hand Grenades
I don’t understand Arthur here. Why is this so important to him? If I had access to dreamland, I wouldn’t want *anyone* else in. And besides, it would only be fair if the creatures of dreamland could also cross into our world. Still, this would be an immigration problem on an epic scale. For a ruler, Arthur is not very good at looking at the big picture, it seems. That said, Nics motives are probably far from being concerned over dreamland.
Or maybe there’s something about the nature of dreamland we haven’t been told yet.
I don’t understand Arthur here. Why is this so important to him? If I had access to dreamland, I wouldn’t want *anyone* else in. And besides, it would only be fair if the creatures of dreamland could also cross into our world. Still, this would be an immigration problem on an epic scale. For a ruler, Arthur is not very good at looking at the big picture, it seems. That being said, Nics motives are probably far from being concerned over dreamland.
Or maybe there’s something about the nature of dreamland we haven’t been told yet.
^ double post, sorry about that. Browser didn’t respond. -.-
That’s a rather selfish reason you’re giving, and Arthur isn’t a selfish man. Misguided maybe, but not selfish. He wants to share dreamland with his people, not keep it to himself.
Wait a second… did that dragon just THREATEN King Arthur? While he’s wearing magic armor and carrying a massive magical sword? I hope there’s a good reason Nicodemus (sic because it’s early and I’m lazy) is still alive to bother the twins. ~refreshes obessively until the next update~ also: I love this comic!
Arthur may be King, but he’s still, by Nic’s standards, either a tourist, or at best, an absentee landlord. Nic has ambitions as well, and much more time in dreamland to work on plots, plans, and alliances.
The way I’m reading Arthur’s motives is that he’s convinced that if others can come into Dreamland and see things as he does, they’ll be more inspired and work on making the human world like Dreamland.
I think Arthur knows that any human’s presence in dreamland is a temporary thing at best. They can take comfort and inspiration from Dreamland, but as humans, they still have to live in the real world.
not so much a “choice” as an ultimatum. And Arthur seems to be having an Alex moment in the first panel–
Nic: You don’t care about Dreamland!
Nic: Your aren’t thinking about Dreamland!
Nic: You worry more about your precious Camelot than you do about Dreamland!
Arthur:……..waitaminnit, what exactly are you saying?
Hahahaha. Hadn’t seen it that way before (more as a rhetorical question), but it could sort of come off that way.
Strange that Nic’ seems to revile human behaviour, while he himself is displaying EXACTLY that behaviour.
Something doesn’t add up here Ol’ Nic’ Sir.. I do not trust him for amoment .All bad things have been done for what seemed good reason in the beginning, yet I doubt that Nic had dreamland’s best interest in mind from the beginning. Somehow. he Nightmare realm seems to play a role here.
@jurgen, well doesn’t ole’ Nic seem more like a creature of Nightmare than Dreamland? It would also explain why he is so concerned about Nightmare’s stake in this. that might even be the agreement. Ole Nic’s is Nightmare’s rep for teh throne and a human rep’s DreamLand.
Dragons are odd that way. They’re a universal symbol (every culture has them, or nearly every one), and they represent both the supreme ideal of power and majesty, while also representing the most terrible, nightmarish and insurmountable trials humans can face (Satan is often referred to as a dragon, the name “Dracula’ is derived from a word for Dragon, etc. etc.) So they’re always something tremendously powerful and grand…but rarely in the symbolism are they something definitively GOOD. Nicodemus tends to play this role to a ‘T’.
Also, he bleeds green nightmare blood! NIGHTMARE!!!
actually technically, I did my final project on Dracula dracul literaly means devil and dracUla means son of devil. Because King Vlad “Dracul” Tepes was a knight and the leader of the Order of the Dragon, and the Catholic Church considered the dragon to be a representation of the devil, they nick named him “The Devil” aka, Dracul. His son, Vlad “the Impaler” Tepes was also a knight of the same order, succeeded him, etc., and was nick named “The Son of the Devil” by the Catholic Church. At one point he was captured by his enimies (the Turks, among others) and was forced to change faith from Eastern Orthodox to Catholic. His original church excomunicated him because of this. In his church, at least at the time, when one was excomunicated they became “bloody” and “undead.” These are some of the many reasons why Vlad the Impaler, Prince of Romania, became the inspiration of the vampire in the novel Dracula.
O.o I think I went on a tangent… hope the info is, intriguing. =)
sorry the whole thing is italicised., still learning code stuff.
*cue dramatic music (preferably by John Williams)*
It’s going to be fun to watch where this goes, seeing as we basically know how it ends.
They’re both going about it the wrong way. Arthur is being naive about the potential influence humanity could have on Dreamland (not just Dreamland on humanity). Nic is pushing too hard, threatening when he should still be carefully reasoning, even welcoming discourse with Merlin if only to gain more time to continue to bring Arthur to his way of thinking.
Well, we know where it ends up going!
Camelot! Camelot! Camelot!
It’s only a model.
What did I say, yesterday! Arthur chose a defensive position on whether or not he really cares about dreamland, and Nic took the opportunity to obtain a stronger position in the argument. Verbal smokescreens to cloud the fact that the real issue should be whether or not humans would really be all that destructive to dreamland. Dream/Vision Questing is a very difficult process! Most of the people who would crave easy exploitation simply would not have the patience to make it into their world! Those who would make it to dreamland would be those of a more disciplined nature, and less inclined to ruin it for profit. Yet, one must realize that the dragon doesn’t want to hear that not all humans are bad. It weakens his argument, which makes me suspect once again that there is a hidden agenda.
Still don’t trust him…
Oops! Only the word ‘very’ and ‘not’ was supposed to be in bold type, there. I must’ve forgotten to close the tags. sorry…
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
Nicodemus is begging the question here on whether having (a few) more humans have (minimal) access to Dreamland will necessarily be a bad thing. Arthur is letting him get away with the logical fallacy, and not arguing the point as he should – but it’s definitely and clearly a logical fallacy based in prejudice rather than reasoned debate.
We don’t have to “suspect” that there is a hidden agenda. We already know there is. We’ve seen the future. ;o)
I love this comic. Looking at it, Nicodemus made his mistake here. It seemed that Aurthur was about to relent or at least give it thought, then Nicodemus pushed it towards a threat instead of concern. His intentions seem noble but his presentation is too threatening for the king to take the message AND the threat.
Is he using this moment just as a “casus belli” to remove humans from the throne of Dreamland? It seems a bit overdone. Maybe he IS in fact telling the truth.
Nice work on the dragon’s muscles, Scott. He really looks like a powerful oh-no-you-don’t creature…
Now, to see the retort from Arthur.
on the long run?
If Arthur had succeded, so, yeah, maybe the mermen would have their sea floor invaded with BP’s logo.
I will, however, go for a cracker and some wine and think about the next witty page of yours.
I am concerned that Arthur does not appear to know anything about this covenant between Dreamland and the Nightmare Realm. Is there actually something that limits Dreamland to a single human adult?
Perhaps the covenant is a fiction devised by Nicodemus? Or, more likely still given the eventual fugure, the covenant is a deal that Nic struck with the Nightmare Realm?
And the answer to the second question is no. Many human adults can journey there at the same time although it evidently requires magic and enormous discipline.
Hmm, maybe nic had something to do with not allowing most adults in too. I’ve read several stories where the advisor/line of ‘helpers’ to the king slowly changed the law so that it would fit what they want, and where the advisor backstabs the leader. ex: harry potter- voldemort/dumbledore and snape, Deltora Quest- elite and advisors, shakespeare- ceaser and brutus. These are just the ones that first come to mind.
Let’s say hypothetically that they were able to allow access to more human adults. I highly doubt it would be the paradise Arthur imagines. One of the reasons is because people back in those days didn’t have the romantic view on magical creatures that we do today. Elves in fact (at least in Scandinavia as long as to the eighteen-hundreds) were often the cause of malformed children, mysterious diseases or catastrophic harvest. Often because some member of the family had trespassed on their territory or been lacking in offerings.
In Norway for instance, we have the christmas tradition of leaving porridge outside the door to please a cute little holiday gnome that lives in the attic. I did some research once and discovered that this cute little creature is a modern invention, only one or two-hundred years old. Originally, from medieval times, it was more akin to a gremlin and if you didn’t keep it satisfied on christmas eve, you might find your cow impaled on the roof beam when you woke up.
My point is that what people Arthur brought with him could very possibly have their prejudices that would do no less than add fuel to the fire for those who share Nic’s views and if it was made accessible for everybody in Camelot…I can’t really find a way to describe the worst case scenario.
I have no doubt that Nic’s intentions are selfish, but this might also be what he foresees.
now its a threat. Well arthur, now you discuss with him the potential of simply sharing knowledge… and then of course he traps you in some sort of time capsell… hm maybe you shouldn’t tell him about sharing knowledge.
Scott great job again, waiting expectingly for number 1100! On another note I’m not gonna make anymore plot assumptions for JUST a few more strips but I can’t wait to say I expect a fight pretty soon
In Nic’s defense, humans have had a tendency to conquer new peoples and generally screw up the world they live in. I think I’m on his side with this one.
Troubles abound. I wonder about that “consequences” statement. Thinly-veiled threat, methinks?
wow, that’s definitely a threat! I think that Nic is being too assertive, even if he does have a point.
(ps, i’m a long time reader, but a new commenter)
In that case, welcome to the comment community, Fellow Dreamer!
so at this time not even kids get to Dreamland?
Nicodemus specifically states only one adult human, which suggests to me that children are allowed in Dreamland at this point.
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