Page 1096…
Well…another week gone.
I can’t tell you how much I enjoy reading all of your comments.
I love the fact that you are all so into the story that it is striking up such wonderful speculation and dialog.
Thank you all!
Hope you have a wonderful weekend.
And don’t forget the FREE books on Wowio!
See ya on Monday!
Scott
I’d like to know more details about that “treaty”. And about those who “don’t like humans”. Well, I guess we’ll have to wait.
Only thing clear, it would seem Nic (and others, if what he says is true) only tolerate one human adult because they have no choice, more or less. Maybe he in particular has had some bad experiences dealing with that kind of creatures. Humas can be very bad sometimes…
sounds like nic has some friends in low places. Well that was sorta ovious. i came to an idea to end their nic problem… if that little bag thing that travles between worlds could fit a handgun in it, why not just send over a hand gun and fly up to nic and shoot him in the eye… granted its not very entertaining and kinda short, but it gets the job done. Then they can work on getting rid of the nightmare realm all together. i know thats not going to happen but if i was in that situation thats what id do… and id be kinda interested in getting someone from dreamworld into awakeworld, like say nastajia.
didn’t pick a gravitar. didn’t think it would pick the most feminine charicter in the whole thing…
heh i think i wanna learn more about this treaty, and who cares about the nightmare realm we’ll just set them straight and i doubt there are many like that nic…just sayin
Nic: *looks at him then hits him with his tail sending him flying* pest.
me: WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! (see ya monday scott xD)
I don’t think it’s that big a bag. It looks like it’s only a small pouch, that’d be far too small to put anything like that into.
Even if it was big enough though, I get the feeling that only letters can really travel across, although that part I’m not as sure on with the specifics.
Well, assuming that he isn’t just making that up for some reason (I’m pretty sure arthur should know something about this treaty though), that explains a bit of Nic’s apprehension to the whole thing.
Even if Dreamland is capable of fighting them off, an all out war with the nightmare realm is probably not what would be ideal to get into, especially if the reason is because of disagreements in another realm and not truly anything to do with dreamland itself.
Extremely loyal o’ Nick seems, or it could be that it is interfering with his plans. It could also be that he is not actually the bad guy.
I’m not sure I understand why the existence of exactly one adult human maintains the peace.
Its not the fact that Arthur Pendragon is the only adult male allowed by the treatise between Dreamland and Nightmare but that he Rules dreamland when he sleeps.
I’m curious to know what sort of actual power King Arthur wields in dreamland. Obviously he’s king, but It appears as if Nicodemus is more or less pulling all the important strings…or I’m just really tired and not reading these last few pages right. Great comic and Great story Scott. keep it up man!
To some point i can see where nic is coming from with this, what his point is. Arthur has not once asked -why- it is they have this peace, how it works to the precise meaning. He has not once considered or asked what it would mean to them if there were more adults in dreamland, no; he was too focussed on benefiting himself and the humans with what works for dreamland.
wanting it for the humans, but not what it would do to those that are content with the way things are. and i mean, isn’t that what a king is about? realising something would better be done or in this case -not done- for the greater good ?
Plus arthur may not realise that what works for one may not work for the other, a wound isn’t fixed with a piece of sticky tape if a bandage doesn’t work but you do see it holding paper together.
I agree Nic. Imagine what would happen if the Bahta Ilikshi falls in the wrong (nightmare) hands. Or has it already? After all, it was Merlin’s idea…
I think I just saw my speculations going through the roof…
Arthur: “But how is limiting the number of humans in Dreamland threatening the treaty?”
Nicodemus: “If more come through, how long until we are referred to as ‘instances,’ and bands of humans come through to assault us on ‘raids?’ I can only pwn so many noobs on my own, and we haven’t upgraded the Dreamland servers to handle that kind of traffic yet!”
You’d think Nicodemus might have mentioned these trifling details to Arthur a while back. Though I can easily envision why Dreamland and the Nightmare Realm would have problems with adult humans crossing over.
Well well well, humans I tell you.
Nicodemus is right after all. Arthur only thought about the well being of the human race.
Arthur forgot about how humans are not all virtuous. If humans were allowed to enter Dreamland as they please, they would just… take over Dreamland and ruin it like they have done with planet Earth.
Think about it with the roles reversed. What if it was Nicodemus who wanted to open the gate to let Dreamlanders enter the human world? Some of us might like that, but it includes Nightmare realmers too. Would we really like ogres, rock giants, dragons and everything else coming in our world? Wouldn’t we view them as an invasion of aliens or monsters that are only meant to benefit us or to be destroyed with missiles? Hell, even fairies would be a danger, you can’t just swat Kiwi when she can lift a fully grown human adult around like a doll.
It would be chaos.
The worlds are kept separated to prevent such chaos as our worlds differ too much to ever merge successfully. It’s like trying to make a fish and a bird coexist in the same cage, neither can be together in the water, neither can live in the air together. Dreamlanders and humans are that way mentally and dimensionally. Each can pass by for a visit, but they couldn’t live there.
That’s why only kids can enter I guess. They aren’t fully anchored to human life and they only sleep half a day, if not less, so kids are just passing by to play.
However adults… they wouldn’t be there to play.
BUT the question remains, why do they even need or at least let one adult be the king? If it’s for our superior sense of judgement, according to Nicodemus, we fail badly at that anyway, with the BEST among us… maybe humans can naturally travel back and forth, but gosh are we trouble.
Oh boy text wall. For those who are TLDR:
Nic: Humans suck, wisdom or GTFO.
I was already pretty sympathetic to Nicodemus, but now it looks like he may actually have the moral high ground.
Two points…I don’t think Arthur is unaware that there are bad people in the world. He just seems to be under the impression that seeing how Dreamland works (and how it can coexist with the Nightmare Realm) would be a sufficient lesson in behavior to make his enemies more…well…nice. He’s just a proactive optimist. He truly believes that everything can be better and wants to help make that happen.
Second, most kids I know sleep WAY more than most of the adults I know. If this is true as a general rule, then the kids would be in Dreamland longer, and the adults would only get to ‘pass through’ as you suggest.
I’m really looking forward to further explanation as to why Nic (and some races) are anti-human. There’s got to be a reason for it…which has me wondering if more than one adult could get into Dreamland loooooooooong ago and then magical restrictions were put in place…
Would Nic be a 10 or 25 man raid? What kind of epic’s would he drop?
Is there a dialog – location issue here? Are Nicodemus & Arthur currently in Dreamland? Nicodemus’ dialog suggests so(and if not, how did Nicodemus get to our world?) If they are in Dreamland then the castle full of folk aren’t ‘people’ right.
And the way Nicodemus speaks, it seems like Camelot is in Dreamland.
Or do I just need a strong cup of coffee this morning?
You need a cup of coffee. Nicodemus and Arthur are both in Dreamland.
Yup, VEERY strong cup of coffee.
Yes, Nic & Art are in Dreamland.
The castle *is* full of people – but they are not human people. They are… elves, fairies, dwarves, gnomes, etc…
And Camelot isn’t in Dreamland, but it is modeled on Dreamland.
Finally, I’d recommend a Starbucks Zebra Mocha with Toffee Nut mixed in. ;o)
For those that are starting to see Nic as the one with the “moral high ground” here, a couple of points come to mind. First, “the road to hell is paved with good intentions,” so even if his intentions are good, that doesn’t put his actions (necessarily) on a moral high ground.
Furthermore, his dismissive reference to, “your kind” really betrays his prejudice and disdain for all things human. It shows somebody who puts on a veneer of respectability, but only in order to justify his own actions which would otherwise be utterly unjustifiable.
Happy weekend, everyone, and don’t forget to VOTE!
I have nothing further to add …
It sounds like Dreamland and the Nightmare Realm are no better and no worse then the human race. Interesting. Sadly I wonder if Arthur will continue to pursue his plan because the individual races of Dreamland get along without prejudice and bias no matter how differently they look or their different biological makeup. I am very curious to learn what races do not wish to have humans running about.
The difference seems to be that the Dreamland races manage to keep treaties.
What I don’t see is the big trump in Arthur’s cuff. Why did he announce this new era although he tried to be careful concerning Nicodemus? Merlin made quite clear that it would be disastrous if Arthur would force him to a decision between the King and the land.
But now exactly this situation has been brought up.
Hrm, did I miss something — how did this transition from Arthur’s speech about swapping knowledge and culture, to actual adult humans visiting Dreamland?
Really? Sounds fishy to me…
Totally a 25-man heroic raid. Epic items dropped? I’m thinking at this point, Arthur Pendragon’s shield. lol
Agreed! His last sentence on this page has the detestable stench of extreme bigotry in it. How can such prejudice be considered “moral high ground”?
A treaty with the nightmare realm? I’m reminded of a quote from the movie, “The Dragon Slayer”. “You’ve made a treaty with a monster!”
I suspect this treaty has some nasty fine print…
This page made me want to know a LOT more about the Nightmare realm.
Somehow, I have a little itching feeling that we haven’t been allowed to view really the big picture of the Dreamland dimension, its origins and all, related to some Cosmic Balance.
On the other hand, I don’t think Arthur’s dense. I think he is waaaaay to optimistic and that sometimes can lead you to take for granted some things. Why, in the first place, should Dreamlanders serve as entertainment to the humans, if they can be so petty and low sometimes in ther actions/thoughts?
For once, I agree with Nicodemus: if you can’t keep your house clean, don’t come over mean to trash it up!
What is, really, Dreamland?
[scott, as usual, you big heart wit’ legs and hands, I salute you and yours. have a terrific weekend]
Oh, but think of the possibilities! Legendary items of rulers past: the bow of Odysseus, perhaps; or Cleopatra’s … um, makeup kit? Hmm …
😉
You know, this could explain why only children can come into dreamland in normal circumstances during the present day.
They could decide “You’re right, sending over Adults to dreamland isn’t going to work after all, but there has to be a way to improve the hearts of man through this wonderful place. But rather then send the men who are set in their ways, what if we made it that the children came instead? This way they could experience the goodness of Dreamland while their hearts and minds are still willing to be taught.”
Obviously there are children on a nightly basis in Alex’s time, so some sort of compromise must have been made, and that is likely to be where they agree at.
So Nic basically just told Arthur that they were never friends, that he has hated being in Arthur’s presence from the day they met and this whole thing has been an excruciating act of duty to ancient laws that compels him to behave comradely with this bag of water…no need to be so harsh.
This long rant makes me wonder what kind of voice Ol’ Nic has. I’m thinking deep, rumbling, and with some sort of cool accent. British. Scottish would be cool. Or maybe something totally made up, like Marquis Ondore from Final Fanatsy XII…
OK, this is weird. I find myself liking Nicodemus. Because in this discussion, he’s absolutely right. And someone does need to get in Arthur’s face about it.
Being a good king doesn’t mean doing whatever you want to do. It means doing what’s in the best interests of your subjects. Arthur might still have a case for his grand vision. But if he hasn’t even THOUGHT of those issues – and so far, it sounds like he hasn’t – that’s a damning indictment.
Arthur had better have a very well thought-out comeback in the next panel.
If Aurthur is the only adult in Dreamland, what are the rest? Children. That puts a whole new perspective on “I don’t want your kind here.” At least he finally said it. Also, I bet we will see the nightmare realm, in a epic final chapter. I also question how they can good coexist with evil, is that truly peace, or indifference. But actually, I’ve only assumed that The Nightmare realm is evil. I bet I will be proven right, but I should be confirmed.
i think some of you are forgetting what’s going on in the “present”. nic may or may not have had the moral high ground at this past point in time, but the nightmare realm is obviously overstepping its bounds in the present day. whether or not arthur was “detained” for good intentions or not, obviously there’s currently a large problem nic’s doing nothing about.
the kind of prejudice nic currently shows is that it’s always applied with broad brush strokes. tell me again why it’s okay for human kids to be kidnapped to the nightmare realms? i might be wrong here but exactly what sort of “good” comes from traumatizing little kids?
before getting to sympathetic with nic, you might want to remember the present situation.
bugger. i really should’ve proof read that first….
i suspect the point of having a human ruler is to avoid the corruption and grafting that accompany human politics. he has no fam to favor, he has no past negative experiences to prejudice him towards any particular race (and since kids are the only other humans present, there’s no threat since they generally too innocent to do politics well) – in short, he’s as close to neutral as you can get. there’s a reason why it’s wise to bring in an outsided, non-biased source to judge internal problems, they have no ax to grind.
my question is: if nic is so dead set about adults coming to dreamworld and arthur just told him the centaurs had a way to pass stuff between worlds AND orion told us about dream quests in which adult humans succeeded in passing between worlds….why is it nic hasn’t done something about the centaurs? alright, so maybe he doesn’t actually know adults did but nic isn’t stupid. it’s not that large a step from one to the other. if i were obsessed about humans invading, i’d be doing something about that….for the greater good of dreamland, of course.
i’d like to see a reconciliation of this eventually. it doesn’t make sense for him to be hot and bothered on the topic of more adults showing up if they’re already showing up.
I am going to have to completely disagree about Nic having any kind of moral high ground. “You aren’t thinking of Dreamland”, fair enough if he’s truly concerned about the greater good. “The nightmare realm and several races barely put up with there being even one human here, will try and destroy you if there is more, and I agree with them “, just no. That is just bigotry pure and simple. His application of this prejudice is clear to see in his authorization of the kidnapping of CHILDREN. I don’t care how good someone’s “intentions” may be if they include what is effectively attempted enslavement and genocide they are WRONG.
Oh, right, because Cleopatra TOTALLY sat around putting on makeup all day. Just like every other woman on earth. Do use your imagination, if you please. Why not Cleopatra’s scepter? Her headdress? Funerary mask, anyone? Anything BUT makeup kit. Just… you know… saying. Some of us hate makeup. And prefer games. And comic books. And other nerdy stuff that makes us more awesome than the stereotype of ‘woman.’
Just wanted to say that I downloaded and read all of the “Gary the Pirate” books last night and I enjoyed them immensely. Great story and art. Thank you for putting them on Wowio so that we could get them.
And, as always, I can’t wait to see what happens next in Dreamland. Love the Arthur flashback.
Another factor: since he is the only one, and can’t take anything with him, or leave it to his family, as you say, there’s no particular reason to grow corrupt. Especially if you pick reasonably honest, virtuous persons to start with.
Yes, that’s how it begins. “I have this good principle, so to enforce it, I’ll do underhanded and violent things.” And pretty soon, you discover that now YOU’RE the villain.
Nobody goes quite so bad as a moral or idealistic person. That’s why the end cannot justify the means.
I hadn’t noticed that, but it’s true. I would distinguish here between “moral high ground” and “idealism.” Nicodemus does not the moral high ground if he’s bigoted and racist; he may be idealistic, or just hiding his true motives with idealistic-sounding principles. He seems to do better than most such racists, however–at some point, they simply cannot hide their disgust for sub-people. Nicodemus seems to have some respect for at least some humans–including (up to now) Arthur.
WHAT A GREAT WEEK A PAGES THIS HAS BEEN !!!!
Keep up the GREAT work Scott.
Wow. My theory about what reasoning Nicodemus had was right, for the most part.
Now I wonder how he goes about the whole revolution…?
Hi! I’m totally loving this background info story arc. I decided to download the GarythePirate comics (for free! (^__^)) on Wowio, but it says the first one isn’t free =/
Oh no! I didn’t choose a Gravatar (cuz I don’t know how) and it automatically chose the angry one. I’m not angry, sorry =[
Remember some of the names he listed as past kings that he’s worked with. While he’s seen some of the best… He’s seen some of the worst.
Thanks so much.
You need to register. Then you’ll get 5 free downloads to start (more to come).
Thank you Aidan!
So glad you got em. And enjoyed em.
🙂
Thanks Ted!
Nick is not using logic. He applies his belief that things will go wrong. He doesn’t like Humans. That is plain to see. Arthur by betraying his trust and ignoring his opinion (at least from the dragons point of view) just proved how untrustworthy humans are. Arthur is a human, ergo he does things for humans and humans only. Where Nic is wrong is that Arthur wants both to learn. Wants to see first how it goes with the letters before he brings anyone here. I don’t think that Arthur would have opened a portal or something to allow humans in dreamland.
So a pissed off Dragon, and a pissed off Ruler. Let’s see how this smackdown goes.
It’s said the knowledge of the past is an immense power. Nicodemus has an extremely vast amount
of knowledge on the things of Dreamland’s past. He has a lot of leverage!
Now while the question of “why Nic imprisoned last king” has been anwered, I began to wonder how he actually did that.
Well, I think that Nicodemus has been harboring some loyalties towards Dreamland (obviously). So, why is he so dead set against the idea of natural progression of kings? I understand that he is obsessed with the power, but I prefer to think of people as the good inside of them, not the bad. Being cynical is too much trouble.
With Nico as king, terrible things happen to Dreamland. Does he not notice them in his blind reach towards more power? He has made some horrible mistakes, but instead of attempting to fix them, he just covers them up with more tyranny.
Nico may be a horrible king, but he has many things to say about how Dreamland is ruled, hence the advisory to countless kings. He must have some good feelings about where he’s from, then, which means he has just a little bit of kindness in him. Does this mean that he will grow as a person throughout the story? Probably not, but hey, an optimist can dream.
Wow. Nic sure likes to talk with his hands a lot. And seems to be talking as if on a pedestal.
There is a point: th’ll get scared and rather unwilling to come back to Dreamland, hence fewer humans in Dreamland.
Ya, no reason to grow corrupt. Like there is none in democracies, no back-room deals, no lobbyists, no cronyism, no bureaucratic empire building. Nope, only monarchies lead to corruption.
Sleel
but is that good? a case can be made that because those kids ARE being traumatized, that’s why the world we currently live in is as screwed up as it is. instead of getting the positive lessons that reinforce cooperation and interaction, they’re being terrorized. that HAS to have some kind of affect in the waking world.
0.o @ sleel
talk about someone with an axe to grind and voila! someone appears.
not sure what point you’re trying to make here beings as dreamland is a monarchy and nobody has brought up democracy being better/worse until you came along. not sure how it even applies given i don’t even recall democracy being brought up as a valid form of dreamland government anywhere in the story. corruption exists in all forms of politics. smart people try to find ways to minimize it. as far as I’m concerned, having one adult human king is as valid a way as any that exist irl. isn’t perfect but nothing is. if this were a totally foolproof way to avoid corruption, there wouldn’t be a story for us to read anyway.
I’m with Nicodemus in this. (at least, seeing only this flashback of the story, and forgetting what’s to come in the future)
Kids go to dreamland to have fun, but Dreamlander’s sometimes seems to be like their servants. It’s like that place was made for human kids to have fun.
And I don’t know if it’s racism what Nic does. I mean, humans always destroy everything everywere they go. If they found the way to go to that place, they will surely find a way to get money from it, to exploit it’s natural resources, and to eliminate every species there that could be a competition or an obstacle to their objetives. If I were a dreamlander, I don’t know if I would like the idea of adult humans coming to my world, knowing how they threat theirs.
By the way, it’s true what nicodemus says, about Arhur caring about the real world, which he wants to improve, but forgetting about Dreamland’s needs. It’s was a selfish decision that he took.
I agree with Jalule and David comments up there too.
Hmm, maybe Arthur wouldn’t have been so keen to do this if Nic had outlined all the treaties to begin with. Hmmm, that’s your own fault nic.
I’m to tired to read all the comments, but I’m wondering did anyone ask about how Nic came to be a part of dreamland?(I’ve been reading TDC for quite a while so I admit not everything in the comic is fresh in my mind.) Throughout the whole thing we’ve only heard of one dragon and that’s Nic. (That I recall anyway. Am I wrong?) He must have come from somewhere, other dragons, or something. He had to have been young and naive at some point. So what made him like this? Was he originally part of Nightmare Realm? Huh, now that’s an interesting thought. Maybe that’s why he’s so friendly with them.
Nic might have a point in this moment, but his misunderstanding is blown way out of proportion and he needs to bring his high head out of the clouds later. No body likes his rule except nightmare realm. Oh an one more thing, how do we know that Nic isn’t simply playing Author for a fool? By using his own sense of honor against him?
I keep reading the last pages and can’t bring myself to see Nicodemus as the bad guy. Arthur should have tried to understand why the dragon is so against bringing more adults to Dreamland. He should have tried to seek for knowledge as a wise king would have. Sure, sending Merlin to study the problem is good but he had an advisor who obviously have seen this before. I mean everyone can tell that Nicodemus have seen this happening before. Another king brought humans to Dreamland and it went awry. Maybe I’m just seeing things, I don’t know …
Nicodemus still has some pretty valid points in there. I mean, I would want to see some of the people from here go over there, but I would be picky. One wrong person could upset the whole balance of peace in Dreamland. Also, Arthur doesn’t have as much to worry about with Dreamland because it’s already at peace, when his own world is fighting with each other.
Something I just realized- at this point and time, were children allowed into Dreamland, yet? Nicodemus was very clear- only ONE human was allowed into Dreamland- the human king. Am I understanding this rightly, Scott?
This is all the justification required to qualify for “really, really bad idea”:
“You aren’t thinking of Dreamland”, fair enough if he’s truly concerned about the greater good. “The nightmare realm and several races barely put up with there being even one human here, will try and destroy you if there is more,”
To then turn around and say that the Nightmare Realm is, in the present day, way overstepping its bounds, is like murdering your parents, then asking for mercy because you’re an orphan.
Nicodemus is stating that Arthur’s actions are likely to lead to war. Is that a price that should be paid, in order to achieve what Arthur wants? Is bringing that to Dreamland the act of a competent king? And what if the Nightmare Realm ends up benefitting from that war? There’s no law that says they have to lose.
By taking this step without understanding the ramifications, including Nicodemus’ likely reaction, Arthur becomes partly responsible for all the consequences that follow.
He says, “Only one human adult is allowed”.
Take a joke, Seth, it’s free. That’s kinda what the little winking smiley is for …
Besides, think about every movie you’ve ever seen that depicts characters from ancient Egypt. How are they depicted, how are they shown to be “Egyptian”? Lot’s of makeup: black eye shadow, gold eyeliner, etc. typically. (And not just on the women, either.)
Is this historically accurate? I don’t know; probably. Given this observation, and the fact that there is no single object of power associated with Cleopatra historically (that I know of, anyway), is the idea of a magic makeup kit funny? Apparently not as funny as I’d hoped. But given that in Hollywood’s version of ancient Egypt makeup was equally worn by men and women (which is not entirely inaccurate, historically, I believe), any sexism here is entirely within your own preconceptions and neuroses.
-this smiley is intentionally absent-
I hate Nic so much I avoid reading what he says as much as possible. :/
Then you’re missing out on a lot of explanation and character development. He is indeed a hateful individual as we’ve seen him so far. But these last few pages have shown him in a completely different light, unlike what we’ve seen so far.
This really broadens the entire scope of what is happening. We’ve been focused on Alex et. al. versus Nicodemus for control of Dreamlands. But the fact that there is also the Nightmare Realm, seemingly equal to Dreamlands politically, and Dreamlands needs to abide by treaties with it, highlights the true dynamic here; Dreamlands versus Nightmare Realm. While we may see a significant struggle to overcome Nicodemus, the Nightmare Realm will not be happy to see its friend in Dreamlands brought down. I predict that the greater part of the struggle will be in or against the Nightmare Realm in some way.